Hotnerf Inc

Sounds like the other members of my raid group are going to need to pick up some more of the slack:

As many of you have suspected, we think rogue damage is too high. We will be making hotfixes to lower the maximum damage output of Assassination and Combat rogues. The Combat nerf will be slight. Both specs should still do just fine on damage meters (assuming skill, gear etc.) but shouldn’t be beating out other specs to such a large degree.

Here’s what that translated into:

  • The base damage bonus from Hunger for Blood has been reduced from 10% to 5%.
  • The bonus damage rogues gain from attack power for poisons has been decreased. This applies to Instant Poison, Deadly Poison, and Wound Poison.

I agree I was doing too much damage, but really, if Blizz is going to take 10% off of the pre 3.3 HfB, shouldn’t they redesign it?  It was mediocre before, but now it’s just getting sad.  I won’t lie; if HfB leaves in Cataclysm, I won’t be upset.  It hasn’t been an interesting talent since they took out the part that let you remove a bleed anyway.  Imagine if there wasn’t a glyph; there’s a good chance that it might be worth skipping.  With it being as inept as it is, they could at least make it passive.

I’m not sure on the actual math behind the poison nerf, but I’m sure I wouldn’t be surprised to see about 7-10% of my total single target DPS go between it and HfB.  Loosing approximately 500 DPS is a pretty hefty nerf, and is going to make fights that are already tight on timers even more so.

To be honest, I only destroy other similarly geared players on fights like Saurfang (7% above the next player in 10 man) where I sit on a boss, and part of that has to do with the players having to use other abilities to help with the adds on that fight.  I think this really hurts Assassination more than Combat, as the ramp up time for Assassination is longer than that Combat, mainly due to the cost of abilities, and slower energy regen.  I’ll have to get into game to confirm that, thought GC seems to

Did we need a nerf?  Probably, but I think the main problem is from the design of the class.  We are the premier melee dps class, and unlike every other class that can perform our role, damage is the only thing we do.  Mages are similar from a ranged perspective.  Similarly geared, these classes should exceed the others in damage, and in fights where you have to leave some people constantly on a boss with the rest doing other things, which classes are you going to pick to kill the boss?  The best damage dealers.

All that being said, I like the design of our class,  and wouldn’t change it; however, I can understand why people think we do way too much damage.  It’s not that I disagree with their point, but the degree of how “overpowered” we are is something I might take issue with.  At the end of the day, I just want the boss down, and there are a couple that are pretty tight already from a DPS perspective.

– Sam

12 Responses to Hotnerf Inc

  1. Kaynine says:

    Honestly, with this nerf again to HfB, Blizz needs to look at redesigning the Assassination tree. For this talent to be the final skill in the tree is just a waste. This is now more of a tier 1 or 2 talent. It almost seems a though Blizz is expecting more Rogues to do a hybrid spec instead of a true talent tree heavy spec.

  2. Pingback: Rogue News: Another Hunger for Blood Nerf… Meh! « Recked of the Nightfall

  3. Recked says:

    Agree wholheartedly with your post. Yes we needed a nerf. However, HfB is a bit of a useless talent really where we have to refresh a buff eveey 1 minute that gives a % dmg increase.

    I say, scrap it altogether and give us something else more fun. The old HfB was more challenging where you had to keep 3 stacks up but this would be a pain where more and more raid awareness is required in the boss fights.

    I will go far to say i will be HAPPY to see HfB go completely in Cataclysm.

  4. Banibaq says:

    In my honest opinion, I don’t think Rogues deserved that nerf. Simply for the exact reason that you mentioned: you are THE melee dps class. So why people are complaining that rogues beat them on the meters is something I don’t understand. To me, it is more like a challenge to do even better.

    I like to watch the meters myself and see how well I can perform against my fellow raid members but no fight is the same. Some favor melee, others favor Mages, and again other fights are in favor of my class (shadowpriest) and in others, David acts like a child in a candy store cuz his meters look like he is a dps, not a tank.

    But it all doesn’t matter in the end, with another difficult boss down, vent filled with cheers and loots going around.

    P.S.: I am extremely happy where shadowpriests stand at this point and the nerf to a pure dps class might just carry over to us hybrids as well *shudder*

  5. SadGeezer says:

    Thanks for the info. I’m not sure I agree with Rogues being overpowered. Like you said, we only seem to out-perform the other classes on ‘standing still’ fights, others, where we end up running around, are far less impressive. If we are to stay competitive with other classes we need to be identified as a premier dps damage dealer. Rogues and Mages should be up at the top of the meters, with the exception of a couple of minor utilities and buffs, it’s all we are good for!

  6. Syldanna says:

    I believe this is totally uncalled for. I play a rogue as my main spec and I am very well geared. Assasin Rogues just seem to be the red headed step child for blizzard. I have yet to have someone complain about my DPS while in a raid. I certainly don’t compain about mages, warlock and palidans’ DPS on trash leading up to the boss as I am well behind them. It takes quite a while to get HfB and SnD up, much less throw an envenom with any decent amount of combo points. During tough fights, I sit idle as the rest of the party decideds should JoeBob spec into his healing gear so we have 3 healers on a 10 man or should SallyJane spec into her DPS gear cause we can 1 heal it. I have 1 choice and 1 choice only. Damage. Yeah I lead the meters big time (over 1K more than the next class) on Festergut and usually the same on Rotface. But we need that damage to end the fights as quickly as possible. Should we be complaining that when we have add duty on Saurfang, Putricide and Lady WhatHerFace that my DPS suffers more than Palidans and mages doing the same thing? SnD doesn’t stay up forever and HfB always seems to drop when I go from the add to the boss causing me to have to make the decision should i try and envenom to keep SnD up or should I try to HfB up first. And lets not even mention try to keep a realatively complex rotation up and running around while avoiding slime, fires, etc and keeping up with the raid warnings from DBM and being aware of my position relative to the Big Ooze or whatever else is around (Do I have 3 stacks of Innoculated or not?).

    This probably all arena related anyway…………..

    /endrant

  7. Shun Tzu says:

    Just my two cents. Why to bother anymore for HfB? For just 5% (8% with glyph) is not worth it, why to use 51/18/2? when you have enough energy to really do damage in short time and you need also a bleeding effect to keep it up.

    My bet is 44/20/7 with improved SnD (and glyph), go for higher crit rate over 40% as minimal, open with ambush, SnD and after that just Mutilate to 4 points – Envenom. You will do similar or little less damage in spank & tank boss, but higher on others and instances. The rotation is very easy and rapid.

    Hope this help,
    /have fun

  8. Samueltempus says:

    Shun,

    I very rarely have to apply a bleed effect, there are too many warriors and ferals in the world who keep those up for me. Anyway, 8% is still a substantial buff, it’s not as exciting as the 18% that it once was, but if you’re pulling 6k dps without it, that’s close to another 600 DPS you’re getting from having the buff.

    I’d like to see your exact spec if possible. 8% or not, that plus auto refreshing S&D seems like a lot to give up for a spec that would do similar damage to a pure combat build, minus the burst from Combat cooldowns. I think with the relative ease of obtaining 251 Axes that Combat might be a better option for what your spec is built to do. I’m willing to test it out and crunch some numbers though.

    – Sam

  9. Shun Tzu says:

    Dear Sam,

    Please find below the exact spec I use, practically you can have finishers without energy used, more often then 51/18/2, higher damage on Mutilate, and belive me SnD last enough with glyph. Is fun and easy too 🙂

    Rogue (44/20/7)

    Assassination – 44 points

    Malice – 5/5
    Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.

    Ruthlessness – 3/3
    Gives your melee finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.

    Puncturing Wounds – 3/3
    Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%, and the critical strike chance of your Mutilate ability by 15%.

    Lethality – 5/5
    Increases the critical strike damage bonus of all combo point-generating abilities that do not require stealth by 30%.

    Vile Poisons – 3/3
    Increases the damage dealt by your poisons and Envenom ability by 20% and gives your damage over time poisons an additional 30% chance to resist dispel effects.

    Improved Poisons – 5/5
    Increases the chance to apply Deadly Poison to your target by 20% and the frequency of applying Instant Poison to your target by 50%.

    Cold Blood – 1/1
    When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next offensive ability by 100%.

    Quick Recovery – 2/2
    All healing effects on you are increased by 20%. In addition, your finishing moves refund 80% of their Energy cost when they fail to hit.

    Seal Fate – 5/5
    Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.

    Murder – 2/2
    Increases all damage caused by 4%.

    Overkill – 1/1
    While stealthed, and for 20 seconds after breaking stealth, you regenerate 30% additional energy.

    Focused Attacks – 3/3
    Your melee critical strikes have a 100% chance to give you 2 energy.

    Find Weakness – 2/3
    Offensive ability damage increased by 4%.

    Master Poisoner – 3/3
    Increases the critical hit chance of all attacks made against any target you have poisoned by 3%, reduces the duration of all Poison effects applied to you by 50%, and gives Envenom a s3% chance not to consume Deadly Poison.

    Mutilate – 1/1
    Instantly attacks with both weapons for $% weapon damage plus an additional $5374s1 with each weapon. Damage is increased by 20% against Poisoned targets. Awards 2 combo points.

    Combat – 20 points

    Dual Wield Specialization – 5/5
    Increases the damage done by your offhand weapon by 50%.

    Improved Slice and Dice – 2/2
    Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 50%.

    Precision – 5/5
    Increases your chance to hit with weapon and poison attacks by 5%.

    Close Quarters Combat – 5/5
    Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Daggers and Fist Weapons by 5%.

    Lightning Reflexes – 3/3
    Increases your Dodge chance by 6% and gives you 10% melee haste.

    Subtlety – 7 points

    Relentless Strikes – 5/5
    Your finishing moves have a 20.0% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.

    Opportunity – 2/2
    Increases the damage dealt with your Backstab, Mutilate, Garrote and Ambush abilities by 20%.

  10. samueltempus says:

    Interesting spec, I’ll take a look at it.

  11. Azshanu of Ysondre says:

    Very interesting… so what’s the verdict? Inquiring minds want to know.

  12. Azshanu of Ysondre says:

    So I tried out the spec Shun Tzu posted, but after several attempts on the dummies, I was only able to manage 1.46k dps with current gear for my level (78). Respec’d back to Muti build which does a decent 2.01k dps on dummies. I may revisit the build when I hit 80. It does sound very intriguing. I probably just need to work on my rotation.

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