Subtlety, It’s not for everyone.

notsubtleI’m working on writing my Leveling a Rogue:  Leveling Subtlety 10-80 post, but I’ll admit, it’s proving to be a chore.  You see, I’ve never fully embraced the Subtlety tree before, and I’ve definitely not considered it as a leveling tree.  Don’t get me wrong, Subtlety as a tree is awesome;  I’ve just never been a huge PvP player on my rogue, and it’s clearly more geared for PvP.  I haven’t really given Arena any serious consideration, as I have enough on my plate with three 80’s, a guild, a blog, etc.

All of that being said, I’m working on it, and hope to get it out by tomorrow.  It’s interesting to discuss an unfamiliar spec in regards to leveling, when I know so few people that use it that way.  If it looks fun enough, I’m crazy enough to try it myself.

Update:  I’m going to post what I think would be a good leveling build tomorrow.  I’m trying to force myself to use a 5/15/51 build, but it’s very hard to decide which talents to pick for a leveling build, when it’s important both to survive, and do massive/fast damage.  I think I might have to continue my leveling on Borean Tundra to get a better idea.  Any thoughts from the Rogue community would be greatly appreciated.

– Sam

14 Responses to Subtlety, It’s not for everyone.

  1. azande says:

    I did level my main (to 70) as a mix of sub and assassination, started in sub up to Hemo, then went over to Assassination up to Cold Blood (CB Eviscerate is “THE” end move) and then went back to Sub for the remaining points which meant leaving Shadowstep out.

  2. samueltempus says:

    I thought about doing a Hybrid build, but the point was to make a 5/15/51 Build. My real trouble is coming from the fact that the tree is too good. Tier 5 and on, I don’t want to skip anything, but I can’t afford 20 points outside of the tree if I do. It’s hard to think of a PvE build that Doesn’t include Malice, Precision and CQC.

    – Sam

  3. Azande says:

    To be honest I don’t see a levelling build taking HAT or Filthy Tricks or Waylay, not even Shadow Dance. I’m at work now so I can’t access any talent calculator, might post a suggested spec later if you don’t mind

  4. samueltempus says:

    Wouldn’t bother me at all if you posted a spec. The current build that I’ve designed actually left out the talents that you listed, so I think we’re on close to the same page.

  5. Armagon says:

    This is what I used on my second rogue:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0eZ0xVZe0cbuhddAzV0o

    playstyle was: stealth up to mob (with Camouflage) then CS, Hemo, Hemo, Evis – mob dead. Worked most of the time up to 70.

    Have to say I was Assassination to Level 40 and I was soo much faster later.

  6. samueltempus says:

    Thanks for the Input Arm.

    I got requests for leveling guides for all three trees, so I figured I’d give it a shot. 🙂 I’m in total agreement that it will be the slowest leveling of all of my guides, but hey, if people want to take the time to try it, I want to give them the tools they need to do it.

    – Sam

  7. Kurrz says:

    I have found that Shadowstep, ambush, Hemo X1/2, Evicerate works quite well. The ambuse crits alone may take 1/2 a mobs health. That coupled with the stealthy “Roguish ” playstyle make for great fun and tons of great loot from pickpocketing. 🙂

  8. Since im leveling sam again, id be willing to level subtely to 80 and give u my feedback. Just looked at the tree and am going to respec to subtely

  9. Trynyti says:

    I agree with Kurrz. I leveled 1-80 (ok, 10-80 since we’re all the same 1-9) as a Sub Rogue.
    A few reasons I did this:
    1. It’s a play style I really enjoy, I love being the stealthy rogue.
    2. I play on a PvP server where people go out of their way to kill a rogue.
    3. Surprising Alliance players with a shadowstep (back when it was super un-popular) made my day!

    Because of #2 I spent most of my time in stealth, wondering from mob to mob stealthily. It could be argued that the movement increasing talents in the lower levels of Sub made my leveling just as fast as a combat spec rogue who also stealthed along. Many times when I would group with a combat rogue to do quests, the mob would be 3/4 dead before he got there because of my speed in stealth as well as shadowstep.

    I’m sure there’s better combination’s then pure sub, but at the time I went pure sub as deep as I could go before moving some talents into assassination.

    With Premed:
    I was generating 4-5 combo points off an ambush (with premeditation). Full health: shadowstep, pick pocket, ambush, hemo (if needed to get 5 cp) evis/envenom, if mob was not dead then start hemo’ing. If I was low health I’d shadowstep, Pick pocket, ambush, kidney punch, hemo, backstabx1-2, envenom. Mob usually dead by then.

    Without Premed:
    My usual combat would be shadowstep, pickpocket, ambush, hemo 2-3, Evis/Envenom, usually mob is dead, if mob is not dead hemo a few times and envenom, now mob is dead. If I was low on health then I’d start with a cheap shot, then hemo or backstab, until cheap shot wore off then kidney punch and finish them. Took longer but I’d usually lose close to no health.

    I raiding now so I’m the typical Mutilate build, but I sure do miss my deep Sub build. Can’t wait for dual-specs to come out!

    One tip I’d give any Sub rogue. Remove your Backstab, Ambush, Cheap Shot and Kidney Punch buttons and replace them with two macros that decide what you use and always uses premeditation if it’s available. I have one key with a macro that uses premed then ambushes if in stealth and backstabs if not. Another one that is the same but swaps cheap shot and kidney punch. The reason for me was to make sure I was using my premed, which until then I often forgot about.

  10. azande says:

    Mmm ok, haven’t finished the spec, but I really can’t bring myself to put more than 40 points in Sub. What I’m looking at is a build based on Ambush/Backstab burst and control through stuns, so in the combat tree I only have Improved Gouge, ending up with an hybrid 28/3/40…. It is going to be a weird build but it might work. I’m almost tempted in rolling a new rogue and trying it

  11. Thimble says:

    I know when I leveled sub, I had a macro for my combo point builder that would use ghostly strike when it was up, and otherwise hemo. Ghostly is a might strong attack, and the dodginess only helps if you’re specced into setup, which I personally thought was a good plan. So it would go shadowstep, ambush, ghostly, maybe hemo if I still needed a CP, eviscerate, and then move on to the next mob.

    The only downside of ghostly is that it costs you the full energy cost if you miss, because you still get the dodge buff. And that can be a real downer. Still, I enjoyed my time as sub…I think my build was something like http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fGxZZxbckIGzdAzV0o around level 60, and it worked for me. Odd not to take any points in combat, I realize, but my melee damage was such a minor component of my overall damage, which was almost entirely specials, that I didn’t worry about it. It certainly wasn’t a sustained damage build, but the burst was enough to wipe out just about any mob, and that was really all I cared about.

  12. Marcher says:

    You guys just helped me out alot on my sub rogue, ty. i never used evis… and i guess from hearing from you guys i deffinatly should.

  13. Valmarr says:

    not sure if this is too old for you to notice or not but…subtlety is a great leveling spec. http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=4&tal=30500210500000000000000000000500000000000000000000000000320232130320121350135201050

    basically it revolves around premed, ss, ambush, evisc, hemo, hemo hemo

    ghostly if you need extra dodge (stacking with evasion is perfect)

    waylay causes you to take less dmg and this build even works in bgs quite well =]

  14. samueltempus says:

    I notice. 🙂

    – Sam

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