Managing My Aggro

So, this morning, I’m reading through my blogroll (still under reconstruction btw), and I get to Aggro Management.  Where did that come from you ask?   Well, it turns out that I’ve actually spent some time talking with Protflashes, the author, while leveling in Single Abstract Noun.  I read through some of the content on her blog, and decided that I’d like to read it more often; perhaps you’ll enjoy it too.

Recently penned was Credit Where it’s Due (Hint: It’s not due to you…).  I noticed that Tricks of the Trade was mentioned in a list, so I immediately read the whole thing.  Having been called out in the post to defend Rogues, I figured I’d throw up a post of my own, so here goes…

I personally think that you should read the whole post, but to summarize, Prot is not a fan of when people take credit for other people’s accomplishments.  For example, when a Rogue uses Tricks on a tank and takes the credit for the tank being able to hold threat.  I am not a fan of arrogant people who belittle others accomplishments via boasting about their “contributions” to those accomplishments myself.  I’ll talk about how I use Tricks in a moment, but first, I’ve got a few fine points that I’d like to correct:

These buffs are short duration buffs with reasonable cooldowns (not sure how long. Probably somewhere from 1-3 minutes).

Tricks of the Trade has a 30 second cooldown, not from when it is activated, but when the next damaging ability is used by the player.  At that point the target gets a 6 second buff increasing their damage by 15% and the Rogue gets a buff transferring all threat for the same amount of time.  If a Rogue does not use a damaging ability on a target within 30 seconds of activating TotT, the 30 second cooldown is activated.

They can put it on someone else, but if they do it’s a swift, hard, kick from the party unless they’re pretty damn quick on their “Sorry! Sorry! Misclicked!” macro).

Actually, It’s quite common for Rogues to use the ability on someone other than a tank.  The 2 pc Tier 10 bonus grants us 15 energy when we use TotT, so it’s advised to use it on every available cooldown.  Over long fights this is a substantial DPS increase when you consider the 30 extra energy the Rogue gets, plus the 15% increased damage the other player gets for 12 seconds.  A skilled tank will pull more than enough threat to hold aggro, even with the increased threat from the target receiving the Rogue’s threat.  I’m going to give Prot the benefit of the doubt and assume that she was referring to the initial TotT, which admittedly, I always put on the tank.  And yes, that’s so I can go nuts, not because I’m afraid that the tank can’t hold threat.

I’m not going to disagree with her.  A geared and skilled tank should be able to hold threat on mobs without external help.  I have tanked most of the Raid content in Wrath, including ICC, without the help of a Rogue or Hunter in most cases.  While I wouldn’t recommend using TotT on the big slimes during Rotface, I certainly won’t complain if a Hunter wants to make getting aggro on them easier for me when I kite them.  That being said, I could do it without their help, it just reduces the risk of me taking damage when they do.

Certainly, the true meaning of the post was not to belittle people by taking credit for what they do.  I take credit for my accomplishments, congratulate others on theirs, and thank people for their contributions to the group.  I think those are good things to do, and hope that other people would do the same. 

All classes have players that think their groups accomplishments are completely due to them.  I’ve talked about this before, but the every part of the group is equally important.  It doesn’t matter if you’re an awesome tank, amazing healer or incredible DPS; without the rest of your group, you’re soloing.  It’s ok to be proud of your achievements, but you should recognize others’ as well.  But please, don’t belittle others by taking credit for what they do.

Well Prot, hopefully Rogues are off the hook now. :)

- Sam

20 Responses to Managing My Aggro

  1. Fealen says:

    Solid defense of rogues. Well done Mr. Tempus, well done.

  2. SpearXXI says:

    All I got to say is I love TotT trade on my rogue, and miss it on my druid; however, I like having the static 5% crit chance to all party members. Anyways, it does take everyone to be on their game, to be successful in raids.

  3. Pingback: Credit Where it’s Due (Hint: It’s not due to you…) « Aggro Management

  4. samueltempus says:

    Lol, that was from my comment over there. I guess I just successfully gave myself a pingback.

    – Sam

  5. protflashes says:

    Nope. ^^ I updated the post to link to your clarification – figured it was easier than trying to explain it myself and getting it wrong.

    I appreciate the clarification – I honestly had no idea it also had a damage component, and I’d never heard of trading it between two rogues (though I’ve never played with more than one rogue at a time). That’s a very clever tactic. The effect on threat is neutral, but each rogue gets extra damage. And it inherently takes into account the fact that the tank doesn’t (well…SHOULDN’T) need it to actually tank.

    As for whether rogues are off the hook…YOU are probably off the hook. ^^ The rest of your back-stabbing cousins…we shall see. :D

    Also, a clarification of my own as it’s making me giggle at inopportune moments reading your post, I’m actually female. ^^

  6. SpearXXI says:

    Prot,
    Yeah, Blizz did a great job with making TotT a talent that is appealing to other players, and not just the rogue. lol I love the synergy it creates, because if it was just a threat dump, then people might not use it as much as they do now. What is hilarious is using TotT on a good tank in heroics and seeing the tank do more dps than some of the dps. hehe

  7. samueltempus says:

    I tried to make the the post gender neutral, as I was unaware one way or another. It’s fixed now. On that note, do you realize how hard it is to respond to another bloggers post without the use of pronouns? It’s ridiculous.

    – Sam

  8. Ringa69 says:

    i just want to thank you mr. tempus. sticking up for us rogues, as if we dont get enough hate mail from everybody. (dps too high, too much CC for pvp, etc).

    i just wanted to say both sides are correct. im combat spec. i do ToTT to save my own ass from getting owned on pulls because i use Killing spree as my opening move. incredible burst dps. if i didnt use ToTT i would pull aggro every single time.* (well from all tanks ive met, even my MT for raids. i have done it a few times when ToTT has been out of range and missed) but on the other side. by using ToTT with killing spree it also allows the rest of the group/raid dps to open up almost immediately. eg. the guild im in is not worlds best, not even server best. but every extra second of max dps we can get is golden as i see it.

    i dont brag about using ToTT. i get alot of complains when i do/dont** use it too. (ie for ToTT swaping with other rogue in guild to increase our dps). as my guild is in the habbit of saying Fail rogues are Fail, if you miss use ToTT like alot of rogues are. then yes its fail. if you use it correctly and for the right reasons. not fail at all.

    *i just wanted to add if my ToTT is on CD i give the tank time to get aggro. i dont want to waste 9g of my hard earned gold every time i die.
    ** i added both beacuse other dps complain that we rogues are 1-2 on some fights. also the other rogue complains that he didnt get enough ToTT swaps.

  9. Wils says:

    I think the issue at hand is the player and not the class. If you run with e-peen asshats, plan on seeing recount in chat and smart ass remarks taking credit or cutting other players in chat as well.
    My advice would be call to the player on the mat if the conduct is that irritating to you, but don’t stereotype rogues or hunters just because the ones you choose to run with are jerks.

  10. samueltempus says:

    “I think the issue at hand is the player and not the class. If you run with e-peen asshats, plan on seeing recount in chat and smart ass remarks taking credit or cutting other players in chat as well.”

    I should have just posted this and called it a day :)

    – Sam

  11. Scott says:

    That is one person that is not going on my feed reader.

    Honestly, I’m kinda tired of bloggers just posting about how bad other players are. Especially in this case, where the blogger seems to have a pretty smug attitude, even though they don’t really know what they are talking about.

  12. samueltempus says:

    Scott,

    Having read the article multiple times, it’s clear to me that she’s not talking about how bad other players are (something I’m also not a fan of). I think Prot’s opinion is clear and quite understandable. I’d have a smug attitude as well if everyone that contributed to my DPS told me that they’re the reason I was able to do my job.

    I certainly don’t walk around saying “thank me, I just gave you 3% crit!” It’s just rude and annoying. That being said, you’re entitled to your opinion and it’s your feed. Do with it what you will.

    – Sam

  13. Vulpina says:

    Hey Sam, do you ever put it on a non-tank, non-rogue? I don’t usually run with another rogue so I always lay it on the tank. Unfortunately that has let to an unfortunate wipe or two! ie – Festergut, if I accidentally throw it on the tank *right* as they’re switching once in awhile…. it does tip the threat onto the wrong tank.

    I’ve been making a point to learn the tank mechanics now so that *doesn’t* happen anymore. But I was just wondering if after the first pull you would throw it on another melee DPSer that is not a rogue? I commonly run with a DK and a kitty druid. I don’t think the lack of threat trading would be too much of a problem… thoughts?

  14. samueltempus says:

    I do. :)

    On DPS check fights, I will always TotT the highest Melee DPS, excepting myself if the highest is me. Depending on who comes to our 10 man, it’s either a DK or Warrior. Our tanks pull ridiculous amounts of threat, so it’s never an issue.

    I think my most creative use of TotT so far is casting it on our Ele Shaman during Saurfang to send the add his way. I then do a 4-5 point Kidney Shot and the melee quickly finish it off, while the ranged kill the other add. The add never travels more than 5 feet before it dies. In fact, both adds are dead in 5 seconds. Our group DPS on Saurfang is much higher than when we used to have the Ele Shaman kite one of the adds.

    – Sam

  15. Maker says:

    Really? A rogue that puts TotT on a non-melee? You feel like going horde? I’ll get you over into my guild. I’d love the extra 200dps.

  16. samueltempus says:

    Lol Maker. ;-)

    As enticing as that is, I think I’ll stay put. There are very few things that would make me leave Bucklers, and most if not all of them would probably involve me not playing anymore.

    – Sam

  17. Wils says:

    Scott says:
    That is one person that is not going on my feed reader.

    (Honestly, I’m kinda tired of bloggers just posting about how bad other players are. Especially in this case, where the blogger seems to have a pretty smug attitude, even though they don’t really know what they are talking about.)

    Agree about not visiting her blog again. After reading a good number of the entries there, I see more negativity than I really want to deal with on my time.
    Wouldn’t have ever found it if it hadn’t been for Sam’s link anyhow. Her blog is mostly a place where she blows off steam bout her issues with the game, palayers, and her guild. Also what you said about not knowing what she was talking about is a good reason to send the blog to file 13 as well.

  18. Sanomi says:

    I was thinking about the threat thingy from ToT.
    If we ToT another rogue, and him in turn ToT the tank, would it double the threat transfer to the tank??? =D

  19. Liquidhealz says:

    I know this is primarily a PVE oriented discussion, but I thought I’d just throw out that I use TotT in arena to boost the burst dps of my teammate. My 2v2 team is double rogue. I handle the CC and lock down and pop TotT on my subtlety partner, just before he opens with chain ambushes. In my 3v3 team (mage, priest, rogue), I pop it on the mage… however, in this situation I am clearly responsible for any finishing blows the mage gets and promptly take credit for them. I also like to remind him that I am busy pumping out dps while he is hiding in his iceburg…lol.. on the flip side, if we lose, they generally agree that it was my fault.

    As for PVE, I mostly pug. If there is another rogue in the group, I am not ashamed to whisper for a TotT trade. Early and often is the motto. I’ve never had anyone complain about it. As long as the tank holds aggro, then the more dps the better.

  20. Ab says:

    Aggro Management is a team effort to which Rogue’s can contribute with ToTT. Using ToTT as a rogue is the same as Mages waiting 2 seconds after a pull before hitting the Blizzard button.

    In other words its just common sense, not something to brag about.

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